Thursday, March 26, 2009
Wednesday, March 25, 2009
Heres is an outline i hashed up for tomorrow. ill print up copies for everybody, but bring your input. the presentation will just be conversation style, with a little structure just so we can hit all of the points. ive marked page numbers on all of the themes i thought were important to a critical analysis of beckette for reference in he conversation. this should be as easy and natural as any discussion we've had in the past, so dont get anxious. just come ready to talk!
Themes
Identity
page 12: debating on hangin themselves.
Estragon is very irrational, and impulsive, while Vladimir is the opposite Estragon's nickname should be Di-Di (representative of the ID)
Vladimir's nickname should be Go-Go (representative of the EGO)
they never address each other by the given names.
page 53, the boy address Vladimir as Mr. Albert
pg 95. Pozzo addressed as abel, and then cain
Negation of Time
No evidence of the passage of time besides the sun
Pg. 2 every time for them is Forever (Also dog reference on 62)
Pg. 9 : debating on when they were supposed to meet godot.
Pg. 60: next day, same time
Pg. 26 indifference of age
Pg 98 what time is it?
Pg. 103 your accursed time!
Loss of Memory
Pg. 9 what did we do yesterday?
Pg. 66 you dreamt it
Pg. 101 I wont remember today
Waiting for Salvation
Pg 8 bush
pg.14 a kind of prayer
pg 106 is he….black?
Broken System
Pg. 15 They are forbidden to laugh
Boredom
Pg, 12 hanging
Pg 92. We are bored!
Pg 99. There is a tree
Sickness
Pg 42 left lung is weak
Pg 12 kidneys
Pg 2 a ditch
pg 64 Who beat you?
Repetition
Pg 80 hat dance
Pg 85. Back and fourth
Fear
Pg.15 fear of meeting godot or anybody else
Pg 20 fear of not knowing what godot looks like
Abandonment
Pg.63 don’t touch me, don’t leave me
Pg. 68 it would be better if we parted
Are we Alive?
Pg. 2 There you are! am I?
Pg. 32 it’s a good sign
Consciousness(?)
pg 4 look in hat
pg 48 that will be the end of his thinking!
pg 80 find lucky’s hat
Paralyzed
Pg. 13 what do we do now?
Pg.. 50 cannot leave
Pg. 51 “ “
Pg. 64 there I am again
Pg 66 we are happy
Pg 109 do not leave/ I cant go on like this
Pg 90 decide to help blind pozzo
In the text Waiting for Godot, Samuel Beckett is showing the audiences or readers that the more you in a comfort zone everything will be as it. Just like Vladimir and Estragon who is waiting for Godot, they don’t realize that they got use to what they are doing. And who know how long they been waiting for this Godot. Everyday they wait and repeat what they do on the previous day. Sometimes they even forget what happened on the precious day. Even though they both are struggle in time, Beckett clearly show that Vladimir and Estragon like where they stay. At the end of the text, when Estragon said, “yes, let’s go,” but the both of them (Estragon and Vladimir) did not move.
Tuesday, March 24, 2009
I'm going to be on campus all day on wednesday and thursday, but i'll be the first to say that i think we should just meet in the "cafe" at lunch. i'll be there no later than 12, and layna, if you need to stop in shortly before class, that will be fine. i think that there has been a lot of great conversation in the blog so far, and i defiantly the religious references are spot on. i believe godot is god, just from the name inferences, but di-di and go-go was something that went right over my head. good catch. i want to pull back from the specific references just for now though and muse on why god is referenced at all. i think that beckett is telling us that god is not coming to save us from ourselves, and that what we are doing in this supposed down time leads to nothing but cynical humor, repletion, and boredom. i know that that is a pretty broad statement, but as an umbrella theme, thats how i take this piece.
Sunday, March 22, 2009
Hi group,
Here are some of my thoughts after a first read of Waiting for Godot. Forgive me if I write a lot.
Religion:
On page 5, Vladimir proposes the idea of repentance, which Estragon rejects.
Vladimir then tells the story of the two thieves (which I believe is found in Luke). It seems that this idea of repentance was made very prominent.
I think that the weeping willow could represent the Christian Cross, a vision of Christ weeping (perhaps towards society?) or more simply, "The Tree of Life".
On page 14 this dialogue (about a conversation with Godot) occurs:
Estragon: What exactly did we ask him for?
Vladimir: Were you not there?
Estragon: I can't have been listening.
Vladimir: Oh ... Nothing very definite.
Estragon: A kind of prayer.
Vladimir: Precisely.
Estragon: A vague supplication.
I think that a strong case could be made that Godot is supposed to represent this idea/notion of God. Followers of Christ pray to God for help, guidance, etc., and Vladimir has prayed to Godot.
Page 106:
Vladimir: What does he do, Mr. Godot? (Silence.) Do you hear me?
Boy: Yes Sir.
Vladimir: Well?
Boy: He does nothing, Sir.
....
Vladimir: (softly). Has he a beard, Mr. Godot?
Boy: Yes Sir.
Vladimir: Fair or... (he hesitates) ... or black?
Boy: I think it's white, Sir.
Vladimir: Christ have mercy on us!
In this short passage I think a few things are important.
1. There is a discussion on the occupation of Godot. If we are believing the notion that Godot is God, then this would make sense. God really doesn't have an actual occupation. Just a thought.
2. God is often depicted with a white beard, and this messenger boy states that Godot has a white beard. Vladimir makes a point to decifer the color of Godot's beard, and hesitates to wonder if Godot's beard could be black.
3. Christ is mentioned in the ending of this passage, right after it is discovered that Godot's beard is white. Could this be a proclamation that Godot is in fact God?
4. GOD is part of the name GODOT!
Psychoanalysis:
I think that is was important that MSR handed out a packet entitled, "Introductory Lectures on Psychoanalysis" during last class, a week before reviewing this play.
During Waiting for Godot, nicknames are given to the main characters.
Vladimir: Di-Di
Estragon: Go-Go
It seems that Beckett does a lot of this name/word play. So is it fair that Vladimir (Di-Di) is supposed to represent The ID? The nickname Di-Di the reverse of Id-Id so, does Vladimir represent the backwards version of the ID? Estragon (Go-Go) is supposed to represent The EGO, but I think it's important to note that the 'e' is missing, so can we say that Estragon is supposed to represent the EGO minus something, or an incomplete EGO? Is Godot is supposed to represent GOD or (in this manner of pattern)... the SUPER-EGO?
here's my argument:
definitions (from dictionary.com -forgive me I'm at home, and I don't have the dictionary of psychoanalysis)
ID : the part of the psyche, residing in the unconscious, that is the source of instinctive impulses that seek satisfaction in accordance with the pleasure principle and are modified by the ego and the superego before they are given overt expression.
EGO : the part of the psychic apparatus that experiences and reacts to the outside world and thus mediates between the primitive drives of the id and the demands of the social and physical environment.
SUPER-EGO : the part of the personality representing the conscience, formed in early life by internalization of the standards of parents and other models of behavior.
Vladimir:
Godot: I think that it is an easy stretch of the mind to equate Godot to God and to the Super Ego. If the Super Ego is the part of the personality that represents the conscience,then isn't that what God is to the followers of the Christian/Catholic religion? God's message is to aide in guiding people to live a good life and to do the morally right thing. Godot is never seen, just like God is never seen or in this case the Super Ego. Could this lack of a nickname/appearance represent this occurance in the play?
Vladimir: As I discussed before, Vladimir's nickname is the reverse of ID or Di-Di. If the ID is the part of the psyche that resides in the unconscious, and is the source of instinctive impulses in accordance of the pleasure principle, then Vladimir is the opposite. Vladimir is a person (or so we are led to believe) and is conscious, and he is constantly, in a lack of a better word, nagging Estragon to do the right, logical thing as read on page 3, "Vladimir: Boots must be taken off every day, I'm tired telling you that. Why don't you listen to me?"
Estragon: His nickname is Go-Go, and if we are saying that this is supposed to represent the EGO, then the nickname is missing the 'e' in 'ego'. It's apparent that this was not a slightly overlooked typo. I think that Estragon is representing an incomplete EGO. If the EGO experiences and reacts to the outside world and mediates between the primitive drives of the id and the demands of the social and physical environment then an incomplete EGO does not mediate between the ID and the social and physcial environment and simply reacts, irrationally.
The difference between Vladimir and Estragon mental process can be seen in this passage here on page 12:
Estragon: What about hanging ourselves?
Vladimir: Hmmm. It'd give us an erection!
Estragon: (highly excited). An erection!
Vladimir: With all that follows. Where it falls mandrakes grow. That's why they shriek when you pull them up. Did you not know that?
Estragon: Let's hang outselves immediately!
Vladimir: From a bough? (They go towards the tree.) I wouldn't trust it.
Estragon: We can always try.
Vladimir: Go ahead.
Estragon is very irrational, and impulsive, while Vladimir is the opposite. From this passage alone, I think that it's apparent that Beckett is using the nicknames to characterize the personality aspects that each do not possess. So in actuality, Estragon's nickname should be Di-Di (representative of the ID) and Vladimir's nickname should be Go-Go (representative of the EGO).
I think that it's also important to state that while both, mainly Estragon, want to split up and go on their own seperate way, they do not. The ID cannot exist without the Ego, or the Super-Ego.
Those are my only notes so far.
I think that it will be important to research and discuss the political aspects that this play has, perhaps dealing with war/conflict and the characters of Pozzo and Lucky.
Here are some of my thoughts after a first read of Waiting for Godot. Forgive me if I write a lot.
Religion:
On page 5, Vladimir proposes the idea of repentance, which Estragon rejects.
Vladimir then tells the story of the two thieves (which I believe is found in Luke). It seems that this idea of repentance was made very prominent.
I think that the weeping willow could represent the Christian Cross, a vision of Christ weeping (perhaps towards society?) or more simply, "The Tree of Life".
On page 14 this dialogue (about a conversation with Godot) occurs:
Estragon: What exactly did we ask him for?
Vladimir: Were you not there?
Estragon: I can't have been listening.
Vladimir: Oh ... Nothing very definite.
Estragon: A kind of prayer.
Vladimir: Precisely.
Estragon: A vague supplication.
I think that a strong case could be made that Godot is supposed to represent this idea/notion of God. Followers of Christ pray to God for help, guidance, etc., and Vladimir has prayed to Godot.
Page 106:
Vladimir: What does he do, Mr. Godot? (Silence.) Do you hear me?
Boy: Yes Sir.
Vladimir: Well?
Boy: He does nothing, Sir.
....
Vladimir: (softly). Has he a beard, Mr. Godot?
Boy: Yes Sir.
Vladimir: Fair or... (he hesitates) ... or black?
Boy: I think it's white, Sir.
Vladimir: Christ have mercy on us!
In this short passage I think a few things are important.
1. There is a discussion on the occupation of Godot. If we are believing the notion that Godot is God, then this would make sense. God really doesn't have an actual occupation. Just a thought.
2. God is often depicted with a white beard, and this messenger boy states that Godot has a white beard. Vladimir makes a point to decifer the color of Godot's beard, and hesitates to wonder if Godot's beard could be black.
3. Christ is mentioned in the ending of this passage, right after it is discovered that Godot's beard is white. Could this be a proclamation that Godot is in fact God?
4. GOD is part of the name GODOT!
Psychoanalysis:
I think that is was important that MSR handed out a packet entitled, "Introductory Lectures on Psychoanalysis" during last class, a week before reviewing this play.
During Waiting for Godot, nicknames are given to the main characters.
Vladimir: Di-Di
Estragon: Go-Go
It seems that Beckett does a lot of this name/word play. So is it fair that Vladimir (Di-Di) is supposed to represent The ID? The nickname Di-Di the reverse of Id-Id so, does Vladimir represent the backwards version of the ID? Estragon (Go-Go) is supposed to represent The EGO, but I think it's important to note that the 'e' is missing, so can we say that Estragon is supposed to represent the EGO minus something, or an incomplete EGO? Is Godot is supposed to represent GOD or (in this manner of pattern)... the SUPER-EGO?
here's my argument:
definitions (from dictionary.com -forgive me I'm at home, and I don't have the dictionary of psychoanalysis)
ID : the part of the psyche, residing in the unconscious, that is the source of instinctive impulses that seek satisfaction in accordance with the pleasure principle and are modified by the ego and the superego before they are given overt expression.
EGO : the part of the psychic apparatus that experiences and reacts to the outside world and thus mediates between the primitive drives of the id and the demands of the social and physical environment.
SUPER-EGO : the part of the personality representing the conscience, formed in early life by internalization of the standards of parents and other models of behavior.
Vladimir:
Godot: I think that it is an easy stretch of the mind to equate Godot to God and to the Super Ego. If the Super Ego is the part of the personality that represents the conscience,then isn't that what God is to the followers of the Christian/Catholic religion? God's message is to aide in guiding people to live a good life and to do the morally right thing. Godot is never seen, just like God is never seen or in this case the Super Ego. Could this lack of a nickname/appearance represent this occurance in the play?
Vladimir: As I discussed before, Vladimir's nickname is the reverse of ID or Di-Di. If the ID is the part of the psyche that resides in the unconscious, and is the source of instinctive impulses in accordance of the pleasure principle, then Vladimir is the opposite. Vladimir is a person (or so we are led to believe) and is conscious, and he is constantly, in a lack of a better word, nagging Estragon to do the right, logical thing as read on page 3, "Vladimir: Boots must be taken off every day, I'm tired telling you that. Why don't you listen to me?"
Estragon: His nickname is Go-Go, and if we are saying that this is supposed to represent the EGO, then the nickname is missing the 'e' in 'ego'. It's apparent that this was not a slightly overlooked typo. I think that Estragon is representing an incomplete EGO. If the EGO experiences and reacts to the outside world and mediates between the primitive drives of the id and the demands of the social and physical environment then an incomplete EGO does not mediate between the ID and the social and physcial environment and simply reacts, irrationally.
The difference between Vladimir and Estragon mental process can be seen in this passage here on page 12:
Estragon: What about hanging ourselves?
Vladimir: Hmmm. It'd give us an erection!
Estragon: (highly excited). An erection!
Vladimir: With all that follows. Where it falls mandrakes grow. That's why they shriek when you pull them up. Did you not know that?
Estragon: Let's hang outselves immediately!
Vladimir: From a bough? (They go towards the tree.) I wouldn't trust it.
Estragon: We can always try.
Vladimir: Go ahead.
Estragon is very irrational, and impulsive, while Vladimir is the opposite. From this passage alone, I think that it's apparent that Beckett is using the nicknames to characterize the personality aspects that each do not possess. So in actuality, Estragon's nickname should be Di-Di (representative of the ID) and Vladimir's nickname should be Go-Go (representative of the EGO).
I think that it's also important to state that while both, mainly Estragon, want to split up and go on their own seperate way, they do not. The ID cannot exist without the Ego, or the Super-Ego.
Those are my only notes so far.
I think that it will be important to research and discuss the political aspects that this play has, perhaps dealing with war/conflict and the characters of Pozzo and Lucky.
Waiting for Godot
Hi group, I am hoping to figure out how best to use this blog.
Waiting for GODot. There are some religious references. Gogo and Didi are waiting be a tree, weeping willow. Just a strtch, but could be like Moses waiting for God by the burning bush. Waiting for instructions/directions/10 commandments. What do we do?Page 10 "Looks to me more like a bush" Estragon.
I'm quickly jotting down a few notes, I'll add more later.
Page 45, "We always find something, eh Didi, to give us the impression we exist?" This adresses boredom and existence.
Saturday, March 21, 2009
Well, We're off and running. I'm writing this to figure out this blog system, which explains the previous blank post. I also want to let you know that as I read through this again tonight, I'm going to be paying attention to Beckett's use of repetition, and thus the development of boredom. as far as themes that have stuck with me since the first read, boredom has been the strongest for whatever reason.
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